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	<title>Comments on: La Mulana (****)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.actionbutton.net/?feed=rss2&#038;p=193" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193</link>
	<description>we review anything with buttons</description>
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		<title>By: Bananadine</title>
		<link>http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-3981</link>
		<dc:creator>Bananadine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-3981</guid>
		<description>Well I guess I won THAT argument.  :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I guess I won THAT argument.  <img src='http://www.actionbutton.net/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Bananadine</title>
		<link>http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-3821</link>
		<dc:creator>Bananadine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-3821</guid>
		<description>&gt; I’ve played Chromatron, and it was a very slight improvement on the very hackneyed laser chess theme. If Chromatron impressed you, it’s clear that you don’t know much about games as an artform.

OH WELL EXCEPT FOR MY AWESOME CREDENTIALS HERE

Ehh one bitchy presumptuous post deserves another (those being mine, and then yours, I&#039;m trying to be conciliatory yet still cynical here OH GOD NOW I SOUND LIKE PITCHFORK).  ANYWAY who is talking about art?  You went on about puzzles and severe difficulty in your review, and your enjoyment of the aforementioned in this game.  Chromatron is a series of puzzles that are severely difficult, minus everything I found unpleasant about the first few minutes of La Mulana, and I enjoyed it a lot.  What&#039;s the mismatch?  I gather it&#039;s got to do with La Mulana&#039;s context, which apparently can be summed up in the statement that games used to be hard but then got easier but now are sometimes hard again.  Uh?  Art?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; I’ve played Chromatron, and it was a very slight improvement on the very hackneyed laser chess theme. If Chromatron impressed you, it’s clear that you don’t know much about games as an artform.</p>
<p>OH WELL EXCEPT FOR MY AWESOME CREDENTIALS HERE</p>
<p>Ehh one bitchy presumptuous post deserves another (those being mine, and then yours, I&#8217;m trying to be conciliatory yet still cynical here OH GOD NOW I SOUND LIKE PITCHFORK).  ANYWAY who is talking about art?  You went on about puzzles and severe difficulty in your review, and your enjoyment of the aforementioned in this game.  Chromatron is a series of puzzles that are severely difficult, minus everything I found unpleasant about the first few minutes of La Mulana, and I enjoyed it a lot.  What&#8217;s the mismatch?  I gather it&#8217;s got to do with La Mulana&#8217;s context, which apparently can be summed up in the statement that games used to be hard but then got easier but now are sometimes hard again.  Uh?  Art?</p>
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		<title>By: bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-3807</link>
		<dc:creator>bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 04:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-3807</guid>
		<description>First, thanks for playing a game based on my recommendation. Second, you&#039;re right about the darkroom field in La-Mulana. But third, you are clearly missing a huge amount of the subtlety and history that makes independent games interesting right now.

I&#039;ve played Chromatron, and it was a very slight improvement on the very hackneyed laser chess theme. If Chromatron impressed you, it&#039;s clear that you don&#039;t know much about games as an artform. 

You claim that the games medium isn&#039;t complex enough... But you&#039;re missing a huge amount of the complexity is there. Furthermore, if complexity is a prerequisite for critical analysis, then that would imply that we can never have an interesting discussion about early silent films, which are nothing if not simple.

An artform needs intelligent, understanding discussion not because it&#039;s particularly complex, but because there is an absence of such discussion. If Pitchfork disappeared, there would still be a lot of critical analysis of music. But there is hardly any such discussion of games - not because they are non-complex, but because they are new.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, thanks for playing a game based on my recommendation. Second, you&#8217;re right about the darkroom field in La-Mulana. But third, you are clearly missing a huge amount of the subtlety and history that makes independent games interesting right now.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve played Chromatron, and it was a very slight improvement on the very hackneyed laser chess theme. If Chromatron impressed you, it&#8217;s clear that you don&#8217;t know much about games as an artform. </p>
<p>You claim that the games medium isn&#8217;t complex enough&#8230; But you&#8217;re missing a huge amount of the complexity is there. Furthermore, if complexity is a prerequisite for critical analysis, then that would imply that we can never have an interesting discussion about early silent films, which are nothing if not simple.</p>
<p>An artform needs intelligent, understanding discussion not because it&#8217;s particularly complex, but because there is an absence of such discussion. If Pitchfork disappeared, there would still be a lot of critical analysis of music. But there is hardly any such discussion of games &#8211; not because they are non-complex, but because they are new.</p>
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		<title>By: Bananadine</title>
		<link>http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-3806</link>
		<dc:creator>Bananadine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 23:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-3806</guid>
		<description>Incidentally, anybody wanting a somewhat recent, old-fashioned puzzle game that DOESN&#039;T require a lot of extraneous busywork ought to try Chromatron.  And weep, because it is hard.  And keep playing it, because on top of being hard, it is challenging.  In that La Mulana darkroom, you have to memorize a field.  In Chromatron, you have to understand a field.

Also, Penny Arcade, despite its shortcomings, is much better than this site.  Y&#039;all&#039;s work has 70% of the pretentiousness of Pitchfork, and 1% of the breadth.  Not to insult you too much, you&#039;re good writers and you&#039;re trying and all, but god, the games medium just isn&#039;t complex enough yet to be saddled with a Pitchfork.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, anybody wanting a somewhat recent, old-fashioned puzzle game that DOESN&#8217;T require a lot of extraneous busywork ought to try Chromatron.  And weep, because it is hard.  And keep playing it, because on top of being hard, it is challenging.  In that La Mulana darkroom, you have to memorize a field.  In Chromatron, you have to understand a field.</p>
<p>Also, Penny Arcade, despite its shortcomings, is much better than this site.  Y&#8217;all&#8217;s work has 70% of the pretentiousness of Pitchfork, and 1% of the breadth.  Not to insult you too much, you&#8217;re good writers and you&#8217;re trying and all, but god, the games medium just isn&#8217;t complex enough yet to be saddled with a Pitchfork.</p>
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		<title>By: Bananadine</title>
		<link>http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-3805</link>
		<dc:creator>Bananadine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 23:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-3805</guid>
		<description>I tried this game because of your review and found it ugly and unpleasant.  I&#039;ll probably try it again, and I probably won&#039;t finish it.  Very near to the beginning of this game that you say doesn&#039;t feel arbitrary, Indy gets the chance to go underwater.  If he takes it, he dies after about two seconds.  Apparently quite often in this game that y&#039;all seem to think is visually well-presented, Indy is blocked by subtle extensions of the dark blue walls that look almost the same as the walls he can easily walk past.  Apparently all the time in this game that you suggest is interesting and varied, Indy must kill bird after respawning bird after respawning bird.  Yawn.  I like intricate puzzles, but must they be gritted up with simplistic action and long excursions out of the game itself (and into the manual or an IM conversation with a friend or whatever)?  I play games to play games; if I&#039;m gonna talk to people I&#039;ll talk about something other than a fricking linear puzzle.  Not too long ago, I had a lot of the feelings you seem to have for La Mulana, only I was playing Shadow of the Beast III on my SNES emulator.  Now THERE is a gorgeous, difficult game--and one that isn&#039;t so long as to require a save system (which is a pretty goofy feature for a game that makes it easy for you get stuck).  This game, according to what I&#039;ve seen and what you&#039;ve said, is Shadow of the Beast III, only five times less elegant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tried this game because of your review and found it ugly and unpleasant.  I&#8217;ll probably try it again, and I probably won&#8217;t finish it.  Very near to the beginning of this game that you say doesn&#8217;t feel arbitrary, Indy gets the chance to go underwater.  If he takes it, he dies after about two seconds.  Apparently quite often in this game that y&#8217;all seem to think is visually well-presented, Indy is blocked by subtle extensions of the dark blue walls that look almost the same as the walls he can easily walk past.  Apparently all the time in this game that you suggest is interesting and varied, Indy must kill bird after respawning bird after respawning bird.  Yawn.  I like intricate puzzles, but must they be gritted up with simplistic action and long excursions out of the game itself (and into the manual or an IM conversation with a friend or whatever)?  I play games to play games; if I&#8217;m gonna talk to people I&#8217;ll talk about something other than a fricking linear puzzle.  Not too long ago, I had a lot of the feelings you seem to have for La Mulana, only I was playing Shadow of the Beast III on my SNES emulator.  Now THERE is a gorgeous, difficult game&#8211;and one that isn&#8217;t so long as to require a save system (which is a pretty goofy feature for a game that makes it easy for you get stuck).  This game, according to what I&#8217;ve seen and what you&#8217;ve said, is Shadow of the Beast III, only five times less elegant.</p>
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		<title>By: Pandaemonium</title>
		<link>http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-970</link>
		<dc:creator>Pandaemonium</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 07:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-970</guid>
		<description>Thanks for bringing this ame to my attention. I&#039;ve pretty much given up on gaming (being the age mentionjed of the average gamer in the review, my hardcore days are over due to time constraints), but this little gem is the most fun I&#039;ve had in months.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for bringing this ame to my attention. I&#8217;ve pretty much given up on gaming (being the age mentionjed of the average gamer in the review, my hardcore days are over due to time constraints), but this little gem is the most fun I&#8217;ve had in months.</p>
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		<title>By: bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-946</link>
		<dc:creator>bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 01:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-946</guid>
		<description>Karmakin: 

That works, if you assume that the average slashdot user is an ex-hardcore gamer. But although gamers exist in the slashdot crowd, it is also comprised of a very large number of 

- HAM radio nerds
- mac nerds (who have obviously never played a game)
- math nerds
- chess nerds
- astronomy nerds
- cryptography nerds

Many of Slashdot&#039;s core demographics would never do something as lowbrow and right-brained as playing a game. 

In any case, as I suggested above, there&#039;s no continuity between what a person wants and what a person would like. 

Haven&#039;t you ever craved a McDonalds hamburger, and then when you get one and bite into it you think &#039;This is disgusting. I knew it would be disgusting. Why did I want this?&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karmakin: </p>
<p>That works, if you assume that the average slashdot user is an ex-hardcore gamer. But although gamers exist in the slashdot crowd, it is also comprised of a very large number of </p>
<p>- HAM radio nerds<br />
- mac nerds (who have obviously never played a game)<br />
- math nerds<br />
- chess nerds<br />
- astronomy nerds<br />
- cryptography nerds</p>
<p>Many of Slashdot&#8217;s core demographics would never do something as lowbrow and right-brained as playing a game. </p>
<p>In any case, as I suggested above, there&#8217;s no continuity between what a person wants and what a person would like. </p>
<p>Haven&#8217;t you ever craved a McDonalds hamburger, and then when you get one and bite into it you think &#8216;This is disgusting. I knew it would be disgusting. Why did I want this?&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Karmakin</title>
		<link>http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-945</link>
		<dc:creator>Karmakin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 00:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-945</guid>
		<description>Actually if you go by lets say, an early internet community, so you have ex-hardcore gamers who&#039;ve grown up and are now 33, and you see what they want...if only we could do that...

Check out Slashdot sometime, their games coverage. By and large, they do not want the hardcore. They want something short but jampacked that they can fit in bite-sized chunks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually if you go by lets say, an early internet community, so you have ex-hardcore gamers who&#8217;ve grown up and are now 33, and you see what they want&#8230;if only we could do that&#8230;</p>
<p>Check out Slashdot sometime, their games coverage. By and large, they do not want the hardcore. They want something short but jampacked that they can fit in bite-sized chunks.</p>
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		<title>By: somes</title>
		<link>http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-924</link>
		<dc:creator>somes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2007 07:18:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-924</guid>
		<description>oh man how embarrassing.  and you cant edit comments!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh man how embarrassing.  and you cant edit comments!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: somes</title>
		<link>http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-923</link>
		<dc:creator>somes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2007 07:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=193#comment-923</guid>
		<description>actionbutton is too noble to be associated with such snobby internet denizens.

(and too post my godhand review, apparently!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>actionbutton is too noble to be associated with such snobby internet denizens.</p>
<p>(and too post my godhand review, apparently!)</p>
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